mcc
(replying to mcc)
@hikari Like, I want to be writing Rust, but there are a lot of things in it that come down to "this is a bad thing that was situationally necessary in order to achieve some other goal" and you want to figure out ways to cope with the bad thing and someone's coming along trying to convince you that the bad thing is Good Actually and it's just exhausting and unhelpful.
The only positive thing I can say on this front is I've also interacted with the Go community and they're even worse about this.
✧✦Catherine✦✧
(replying to mcc)
@mcc @hikari rust has sooooooo many tradeoffs in it where the root cause (there's no root cause) is that someone burned out trying to improve it and quit
2 replies
Iwasawa 🌟 (one hikari of too many)
(replying to ✧✦Catherine✦✧)
@whitequark @mcc ow ow oof owie ow
(i haven't burned out but it's like, there's a number of little problems with the language i've wanted to fix that i just never did because it'd be so much work)
Iwasawa 🌟 (one hikari of too many)
(replying to Iwasawa 🌟 (one hikari of too many))
@whitequark @mcc and so often even a seemingly tiny simple fix would actually be a lot of work for historical reasons
rf
(replying to ✧✦Catherine✦✧)
@whitequark @mcc @hikari Rust is the product of a new programming language becoming much, much more feasible to create over decades. I'm hoping the same thing happening again will make it more possible for the space "near" Rust (using some of its ideas) to be more fully explored
mcc
(replying to rf)
@rf @whitequark @hikari Maybe, but also what I think about a lot is that one of the biggest barriers to making a new language is building a library ecosystem. Like the libraries are at least half of why I want to use Rust or TypeScript.
If I ever do a language project enough it's likely to be built on top of Rust in some way that reuses the ABI just so I don't ever have to learn or expect anyone else to learn a new library ecosystem again.
Iwasawa 🌟 (one hikari of too many)
(replying to mcc)
@mcc @rf @whitequark decoupling the ABI from C would solve so many problems
Iwasawa 🌟 (one hikari of too many)
(replying to Iwasawa 🌟 (one hikari of too many))
@mcc @rf @whitequark or rather decoupling ABI from languages generally. i want a universal cross-language native interface definition format
2 replies
Erin 💽✨
(replying to Iwasawa 🌟 (one hikari of too many))
@hikari @mcc @rf @whitequark blank stare approximately once every decade someone reinvents Microsoft COM
1 replies
Iwasawa 🌟 (one hikari of too many)
(replying to Erin 💽✨)
@erincandescent @rf @mcc @whitequark i was considering mentioning COM actually. i was also thinking about WinRT
Erin 💽✨
(replying to Erin 💽✨)
@hikari @mcc @rf @whitequark And don’t get me wrong. COM is a great idea
Its also a terrible lowest-common-denominator thing almost by definition.
Erin 💽✨
(replying to Erin 💽✨)
@hikari @mcc @rf @whitequark Fun fact of the day: Did you know that IUnknown made its way into CoreFoundation?
Its used as the backend for CFPlugin
1 replies
Iwasawa 🌟 (one hikari of too many)
(replying to Erin 💽✨)
@erincandescent @rf @mcc @whitequark …what???
Iwasawa 🌟 (one hikari of too many)
(replying to Iwasawa 🌟 (one hikari of too many))
@erincandescent @rf @mcc @whitequark okay tbf IUnknown is pretty minimal and i suppose they can't put a dependency on core foundation or libobjc inside core foundation
Erin 💽✨
(replying to Erin 💽✨)
@hikari @mcc @rf @whitequark (I think this one will amuse Hikari most of all)
Jordan
(replying to Iwasawa 🌟 (one hikari of too many))
@hikari @mcc @rf @whitequark I keep playing with writing down a syntax for it and then get bogged down when I realize the most interesting thing would be enums/ADTs. Though maybe what Rust picked for repr(C) enums is close enough.
Jordan
(replying to Jordan)
@hikari @mcc @rf @whitequark LLVM is nearly this except where it isn’t at all. WASM is sort of this except it’s not actually native; it’s just easier to target than the JVM or CLR.
Iwasawa 🌟 (one hikari of too many)
(replying to Jordan)
@jrose @mcc @rf @whitequark llvm is extremely not this in practice. wasm is maybe our only hope